Thank GOD the grownups are in charge!

But Zell said it is like showering in high school! A murderous high school, which is why he is a Democrat! Democrats love torture and murder, on our own soil!

How long before we here, "Ya know, this is really Clinton's Army."

I thought we were supposed to be outraged over the outrage?

After all, wasn't it Rush Limbaugh who likened the prison abuse/torture to college pranks? (.."just some kids blowing off steam.")

I see the abuse/torture as a reflection on the wrongness of the entire Iraq War.

I suspect we might be in for a terrorist act, soon, in the USA, to turn the world's attention elsewhere.

The New Yorker scooped everyone, now the press is falling over themselves to cover this story. Too bad we didn't have this fervor BEFORE the invasion of Iraq.

Maybe this will finally do it...

www.removebush.com

But why does Paul Harvey (now hear the rest of the story) still say it was only seven GI's who did the abuse?

It's never the crime, it's the coverup.

"How long before we hear....

Heard it already on NPR. From William Kristol of the Weekly Standard. Last night.

Further, you do know, don't you, that the torture at A.G. is merely the outgrowth of blow jobs in the White House and the Sixties' counter-culture?

This from assorted Republican quasi-humans on talk radio.

By the way, should McCain be chosen by Kerry as running mate, maybe McCain will hire Kristol as his chief-of-staff. He owes him, from 2000. Then the Repugs can own the Democratic Party, too.

I am OUTRAGED that the WSJ and DEnver Post are focusing on systemic abuses that were buried instead of the fact that Omarosa from the Apprentice has her own 900 #. Why does the WSJ HATE America?

This situation will only continue to spiral downward as more people come forward. I am willing to bet that the Army is working to get the "7" guilty soldiers to plead guilty so there is no public testimony.

If the courts martial go beyond a sentencing hearing, lots of additional people are going to be implicated.

It makes me sick to think I once went through Interrogation School as part of my training. This is not what we were trained to do. Of course that was shortly after Vietnam and the people in charge had some understanding of what our POWs went through in the Hanoi Hilton.

Drip, drip, drip

But it seems like the attempts to limit the damage is starting to be effective. The Senate hearings today didn't turn up much more news, and we heard lots of "I didn't know that, or approve that".

The generals were able in several situations to get away with "I reported that to higher commands" without being questioned as to whom the reports went.

Some low level officers will be charged. But nothing beyond the actual Abu Ghraib premises, it seems.

It still is not clear to me what the DoD and military think IS permissible. Still lots of talk about needing to get good intelligence from prisoners.

BTW: What ever happened to the old line that no one need answer more than "name, rank, and serial number"?

But you know, its not like we're killing people or anything. Or at least not using cameras. Or at least not beheading them, I guess.

Who was it yesterday that noted that all of a sudden the Right has become a bunch of relativists, as long as what we do is one step less reprehensible from what they do, then we must be okay. What happened to their vaunted "moral clarity."

I am "outraged" and the faux "outrage" that "outrageous" repuglican senators fake to divert America's attention from the greatest administrative failure since watergate...

All terrible. And no one will give a shit in the end. I can smell the backlash coming.

As this spreads higher and higher up the command chain, and as the media finally decides that this is "sexy" enough to use on the infotainment half-hour every evening, it's going to be impossible for BushCo to stick with the "7 bad apples" explanation.

At the same time, I'm disgusted by the growing number of people who feel that exposing torture and murder is unpatriotic.

Paul Harvey's still on the radio? How quaint!

I listened to some of the senate hearing today and it sounded to me like Lindsay Graham was working hard to keep the issue limited to Iraq and leave responsibility with military intelligence at Abu Ghraib. A clear effort was made to protect General Miller and his Guantanamo operation. Guantanamo is administration's soft underbelly since this is where detainees by adminstration fiat did not have Geneva protections. My general impression of the hearing(i missed mccain) was that the whitewash operation was starting to get a little traction.

Oh, the country's in the very best of hands!"

Lord, how much worse can it get?

"But Warner's counterpart in the House, Rep. Duncan Hunter, lashed out at the Senate for its plan to hold another hearing on the matter, saying "people are now being pulled out of those battlefield positions" to testify before Congress.

"That is detrimental to the 135,000 good people who are fighting right now in theater and who need their leadership and need a focused leadership," Hunter, a Republican from California, told reporters.

Of course what the good Congressman forgot to tell the reporters was that Senator Warner offered to teleconfernce with the "warfighting generals" and was informed by the Pentagon that they were already in the US for discussions.

Just another little oversight on the part of the Conservatives in the House of MisRepresentatives when being outraged by the outrage.

Despicable. They are trying to pin this faisco on low level soldiers who took orders from Intel officers or higher up.

George Bush, the perennial C- student, is getting an object lesson on politics. Except this time no one can bail him out. Frankly, I'm pleased that he hasn't fired Rumsfeld because every time Bush professes his loyalty to Rumsfeld, he attaches himself even more firmly to the torture scandal. They are all going to go down together. Bush's incompetence, willful blindness, and ignorance is on full display in this crisis. He's the captain of a ship that he has steered onto an iceberg and the ship is falling apart underneath him. Stay the course, Dear Leader!

Chris Matthews on Hardball last night kept referring to a statement allegedly made by Thomas Pappas (Intel Colonel in charge) that Pappas gave the order to strip these prisoners etc. Has anyone seen confirmation of this?

I still very much want to see this investigation expanded to Afghanistan, considering that we've heard reports and complaints from the prisons there for a long time now.

I'm thinking it's still the tip of the iceberg. Will we ever get to see the rest of the iceberg exposed?

Cat out of bag.

Genie out of bottle.

Dragon's teeth sown.

Chickens coming home.

The Night of Long Knives is about to begin.

Rats best jumping now to be saving your skin.

Oh Canada!

Jeremy Sivits just got the full sentence possible under his special court marshal and all he did was snap some pics then cooperate with the investigation.

Those other MPs are no doubt feeling a bit anxious and lonely right about now.

In related news, have you noticed that the Repugs in the House are having kittens? They are trying every excuse possible to get the Senate leadership to shut down the moment toward full and open investigations, but the old bulls on both sides of the Senate committee leadership will have no part of this.

This may not be the Senate's finest hour (yet) but it sure shows the genius of what the founders in Philadelphia designed for us.

"The deaths include the killing in November of a high-level Iraqi general...."

"The Wall Street Journal reports that the Army has known about the abuses at Abu Ghraib since at least last November but did nothing about them"

"....The late November events show that top military commanders were alerted to the abuses by the Red Cross earlier than they so far have publicly acknowledged."

"To summarize: the Army knew about this back in November and didn't try to stop it"

now....what else happened in November of 2003? particulary late November.....around the time when many Americans eat turkey (or turkee)and watch football.....hmmmm....am i the only one who thinks Bush's Thanksgiving visit with the troops could now be looked at as an attempt to distract us all in case these events were leaked to the press?

I thought I read somewhere where stripping of detainees was allowed by military higher-ups.

One unfortunate outcome from an unexpected corner:

The rightwing in germany already refers to this as "concentration-camp"-like-torture, trying to diminish the significance of Nazi crimes in WWII.

Guess the right wing fuckwads are the same all over the world.